很高兴能终于有人系统性的分析到底中国的OSM缺少数据缺少到了什么样的程度，经常会在mapper群体里面听到说“一个县城消耗一个mapper/你这地图百平方公里耗几个mapper啊”之类的讨论或者是“中国大部分地方就是这个（配图一张纯白）”的自嘲，因为中国真的很大，世界上面积前列，但因为法律和网络上的限制，活跃的mapper又太少了。 之前在各个国内平台的群聊经常接待到需要做作业的学生，那一般就问一下是要什么类型的数据，如果是公交一般就定向推荐济南上海，路网北京，micromapping靖西，或者说“北京和山东占了国服OSM起码三分之一江山”，但对哪里的mapper多到底有多么多，分别又是多么的能画，确实也是主观先验在前的（当然本宝宝似乎也确实为部分刻板印象添砖加瓦了，很遗憾） 而对国外社区来说，经常系统性的忽视中国意见，和对中国编辑者提出太多质量上和协作上的要求，以及更严格的审视标准，我觉得也是严重忽略了“对中国来说只是画图不要乱画，只要不到编辑战的程度，哪怕有争议都是有贡献”这件事的。这篇报告也适合给“洋大人”看看的。 总之，很感谢有人做这样的工作，具体内容可能还需要拿出时间慢慢去阅读，因此这里没有什么意见。

@AldrichEugene

似乎您现在已经违法了，因为这个网站现在也确实出于中国大陆的屏蔽中。除非您声称您所在的区域能不翻墙来到这个网站。那么您认为您的行为实际上造成了什么样的危害呢？目前我秉承的对于OSM的态度还是，尽可能令其发挥在生活和学术上必要的作用上。当然，红线和底线应该是有的，例如作为中国大陆公民的时候，对部分敏感设施，如军事用地、监狱、重要能源设施等绘制，确实会有弊大于利的风险，对这些东西绘制确实是有对社会造成破坏的风险，而对于地理数据易于获取和使用影响不大，那么这类内容我觉得就是需要规避的。——事实上OSM社区中乌克兰和以色列两块区域已经有人对“公认不要画敏感区域”有了一份打样。

以及火星加密就是傻逼，这点我对部分中国大陆的相关人员也明确提到了这一点，在AI解读卫星图非常迅速且发达的年代，对坐标的偏移已经难以做到让人无法将实地事物和数据关联。

此外，目前暂无删除评论的方法，不管是自删或者贴主删除都是做不到的。如果您认为有绝对的必要，如您可能因为您的这些发言遭到人身威胁或者可能遭遇迫害，请联系 [email protected] 尝试请求删除，但并不代表您的要求一定能被满足。

当然上面的也都是场面话，您是哪个单位的呢？如果您代表有关部门希望获取和“画OSM的中国用户”的联系，我觉得大可不必用这种方式。

Follow-up: All passed. It seems that some of the ones that triggered manual review will indeed take 2-3 days to appear in OSM.

又一次补充

Since I haven’t seriously studied Map Builder, I’ve just added all my comments under Pieter Vander Vennet’s diary. I hope this doesn’t cause any inconvenience or disturbance to everyone.

It seems that in Map Builder, you can also add various custom tags and use iD presets, but this requires using the 1 / 2 / 3 keys on the keyboard. Moreover, you can select and change tags only for new elements added via keystrokes, and there’s only one opportunity to choose and edit tags. Normally, you cannot reopen this panel.

Additionally, if you edit enough content, it appears to require you to write a note, which I think might be similar to a changeset comment. Therefore, this changeset doesn’t seem to be directly edited into OSM; after clicking Save, the content in the editor returns to its unmodified state. However, when I tried adding just a small road immediately afterward, the edit was approved by Bing within 5 seconds and appeared on the real OSM.

It’s important to note that these “changesets that seem to have entered the review queue” are invisible even in Map Builder, reminiscent of China’s publish censorship.

I will continue tracking that edit which may require Microsoft employee review until it appears on OSM.

Finally, the good news is that when you meet users who use Map Builder on the OSM main site, comments that recommend them to come to the main site instead of the Bing site will not be blocked.

osm.org/way/1267674441

But at least one thing that seems exciting is that MS’s review is very fast, and it really does what they said all the edits are posted back to OSM.

Follow-up:

Map Builder seems to have been updated. This is a screenshot of its work. The interface has changed a lot from before.

But unfortunately, I still feel that the ediror are incomplete. I cannot see all the contributions my MS account has submitted to OSM in the past, whether they were approved or failed. I have been using the same MS account for various related tests since last year.

I also can’t try to see what OSM account my MS account is mapped to to determine whether my contribution has been intercepted by Bing.

Its editor has deleted many optional functions. Which is not terrible, but when I tried to draw an outline based on the top of the building and then move it to the bottom of the building, I found that it had no moving function (fortunately, I remembered the shortcut key M, So it worked)

I tested it and found that common iD shortcut keys such as W and G can be used, but Ctrl+Shift+H is deliberately blocked. Maybe MS doesn’t want us to know where the data is on OSM by seeing the history and element id.

What’s even more troublesome is that when saving, there seems to be a tendency to encourage uploading after completing a single edit. I wonder if this will cause many small edits that only change one building to appear in OSM that are difficult to track.

The worst part is that when you successfully save an edit, it doesn’t prompt you that your edit contributed to OSM, it just highlights Bing Map

I think this is very bad

The original comment can be found at https://t.me/osmchina/129204/132960

此外，您下次遇到这一问题的时候，可不可以尝试按F12唤出开发者面板（目前主流浏览器如Firefox、Chrome、Edge等都支持），然后查看“控制台”（或Terminal）中的提示？

您好，这个问题已在 https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/4618 中被开发团队关注

这个问题我五六年前开始用OSM的时候就时不时会出现了，但是吧——很遗憾的是我也没法说怎么稳定复现，因为一刷新浏览器就会正常。可以试试Ctrl+F5，以及您说的“重启清理数据也没用”是指清理 openstreetmap.org 在您浏览器中的缓存吗？

From 2016 to present? That’s really surprising

Hope you can enjoy your OSM holiday φ(゜▽゜*)♪！

I come from the future, and instead of open geographical data in China getting better, things are getting worse

To draw the various architectural features of a city so carefully requires both a lot of field investigation (but since this is NK, so it should be based on photos?) and enough tenacity. (To use OSM’s model to depict such three-dimensional details may require a certain amount of artistic accomplishment)

It’s unbelievable!

Joke: General Kim must have been delighted to see his city drawn so realistically

First of all, thank you for the current work, it looks really good. It is obvious that you have put more effort into the interface design to make it user-friendly!

I am both a conservative and a progressive person, so I welcome it very much, but I have some questions:

And: 1. Python is generally considered to be weak in performance. Have you conducted stress tests under heavy traffic so far?

The 16 database tables currently used for nodes, ways and relations have been replaced by a single “element” table in which each single object version is stored. So one table for everything.

Especially when mmd pointed out this issue above, blurring the type of element will inevitably bring additional computational overhead to each query.

1. When can we expect to see a read-only (not necessarily real-time sync) demo site? This would help other users and developers test their software’s compatibility with OSMNG.

2. (About a minor UI change) It seems that the feature allowing users to customize scale and short link when sharing has not been implemented?

I think either “map” or “database” would be the correct answer, and they don’t seem to be completely separate. For visitors who browse the OSM website directly from the web, this is a map rendered using the openstreetmap-carto style sheet; for GIS developers, OSM is a free database. This is not a contradiction. The generation of maps requires a database, and if the database is to be presented in a form that is easy for humans to understand, it must be rendered into a map.

I think it was at SotM.eu that I heard “OSM is a movement” and I quite liked that (feel free to stand up and let me know if it was you who said this).

This is really scary to me, because I have heard the term “Wikimedia Movement” before (and it seems WMF is keen on calling it that?). To a certain extent, it is defined in China as an ideological export from the United States because of it is a “movement”. I am concerned that our definition of OSM as a “movement” will make it political and prevent citizens from some countries with more conservative ideologies from participating in contributing to or benefiting from it.

At least as far as I am concerned, I am promoting it from the perspective of maps and databases and those related to geographic information science and computer science, rather than the abstract concept of “OSM”. (More like what open source technology evangelists do, at least focusing on the technology itself can make me feel safe in China to a certain extent)

I think part of the reason why I do buildings first then POI is because the POIs are usually more “temporary” than the buildings itself.

I agree with this, I only dare to draw POIs within the range where I usually live, because I make sure I pass by them from time to time and confirm that they are still open, but there is nothing I can do further away.

应博主 @booktiger 要求，于oldid=2646259删除位于 osm.wiki/Zh-hans:%E4%B8%AD%E5%8D%8E%E4%BA%BA%E6%B0%91%E5%85%B1%E5%92%8C%E5%9B%BD 中的内容：

此外，2023年12月份的这项专项排查治理，暂不明确是针对Mapbox等需要云端储存数据的SaaS地理信息服务的治理，还是包括但不仅限于非中国自主研发的Leaflet.js、OpenLayers等开源基础项目亦属于政治范畴（对于中国境内用户可能只能使用百度、高德、腾讯的JS SDK代替）。对于QGIS、ArcGIS等非中国自主研发的GIS桌面端分析工具是否在整治范畴暂无明确看法（不排除强制要求使用超图科技SuperGIS、中地数码MapGIS等替代的可能）

I’m not a plugin author, but I must say the work you’ve made are great! Because basically everyone is using git instead of svn now, this obviously allows more people to participate in code work (in fact, I first noticed JOSM on svn more than two or three years ago, because I wanted to submit a small fix, although I had forgotten what I wanted to fix. But I failed because I didn’t know how to use svn at that time)

(Even Firefox has given up using mercurial)

I hope that one day we will see that not only the plug-in repository, but also the JOSM repository itself will switch from svn to a more modern version control system, not necessarily github, but definitely git.

What I want to say has basically been mentioned above, but I still feel it is necessary to talk some of my views. Bing’s image timeliness has improved very well in Mainland of China recently - I mean, from 5-6 years ago, to 2-3 years ago. But for areas that are rapidly urbanizing, this is obviously not enough for mapping (on the contrary, there are even mappers that delete local mapper roads and buildings based on too old satellite images) I hope that bing can provide more help in areas where official open data is almost impossible to obtain (especially China and North Korea). Of course, I know that it will cost a astronomical amounts to update all the image data in such a large country to latest. Therefore, maybe we can introduce a new mechanism where active mappers or communities can request to updated images in a certain area of ​​several square kilometers, or Microsoft can judge where in these countries new images are more needed based on the level of activity on OSM?

The second request is, will Microsoft consider recommending to the josm community to move to git workflow as soon as possible? (Unfortunately I am not a developer using Java)

Finally, for the “Map Builder”:, I am very pessimistic about the role of MS in it. For details, see

osm.org/user/Pieter%20Vander%20Vennet/diary/400909

Have you considered uploading your code to Greasyfork? Because for TamperMonkey users, the js script ecology of this website is more concentrated.

@fishingboat

有一个问题，welcome.osm.be 仅仅能侦测到本月创建账户并在本月做出编辑的新人，对于那种一年来一次，次次删名字的，依然是监测不到的

之前name:ru也被大规模删除，或许可以考虑社区部署一个过滤器自动对分钟级的osmchange文件检查，看到有删name:xx的就提示（但是维护难度太大了……目前还犯不着，服务器也很贵）